Alt.religion.scientology Week in Review Volume 1, Issue 31 11/24/96 by Rod Keller [rkeller@voicenet.com] copyright 1996
Alt.religion.scientology Week in Review summarizes the most significant
postings from the Usenet group Alt.religion.scientology for the preceding
week for the benefit of those who can't follow the group as closely as
they'd like. Out of thousands of postings, I attempt to include news of
significant events, new affidavits, court rulings, new contributors,
whatever. I hope you find it useful. Like many readers of a.r.s, I have a
kill file. So please take into consideration that I may not have seen some
of the most significant postings.
The articles in A.r.s Week in Review are brief summaries of the articles.
Many include an excerpt, and all include message IDs for the articles I
cover. This may or may not be useful to you, depending on how long your
site stores articles in the newsgroup before expiring them.
Free A.r.s Week in Review subscriptions are available, just email me at
rkeller@voicenet.com
It is archived at:
http://wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de/~krasel/CoS/ars-summary.html
http://user1.i1.net/~mallen/scn/arswr/ars-summary.html
http://www.amazing.com/scientology/ars-summary.html
http://users.aimnet.com/~jdiver/scieno.htm
http://www.thur.de/religio/publik/arsfaq.html
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Andreas Heldal-Lund
Helena Kobrin, Scientology lawyer, wrote to Andreas Heldal-Lund's Internet
provider to complain over a series of NOTS documents on Andreas' web site.
The file names themselves formed an anti-Scientology message, which Kobrin
repeated.
"I have been informed that one of your subscribers, Andreas Heldal-Lund, has placed certain OT II, OT III, and NOTs works on his web site at the following web pages:
Andreas' lawyer, Knut Vigeland, wrote a letter to Helena in reply to legal threats.
"I am not yet quite aware of my involvement in this matter, apart from the fact that I, like most decent people in the civilized and enlightened world, would like to observe the death and cremation of your client soonest possible. My own crusade against your church started long time ago. As per to-day your 'church' is close to bankruptcy in Norway - partly thanks to my efforts. A rather rewarding experience.
"Please observe that English is not my mother tongue, and please observe that I only receive 3 pages of the voluminous telefax you maintain to have sent me. 22 pages are missing. Based on what is said above, I humbly ask you to have these 25 pages properly translated into Norwegian before sending them to me. Furthermore I ask you to give me specific references to the Norwegian laws you claim have been violated from Mr. Heldal-Lunds side - again in Norwegian.
"My Norwegian counterpart, so far, has been Mr. John Arild Aasen, a Norwegian lawyer located in Oslo. He might take care of the practicalities mentioned above. Finally, I do hope this dispute can find its solution before your 'church', for very good reasons, is being hounded out of this country. Then we shall have no counterpart here to address."
Andreas has been moving his NOTS sites to other ISPs.
"Scibstednett now closed a site with the NOTs on their server. HEY! What a surprise! Operation Clambake suddenly pops up at www.nettguiden.no/clambake. As I said earlier, these documents are all over the net, I can keep on changing my links as long as you want to continue this stupid game."
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Stephan Kleinert
The Internet administrator of a German NOTS site also received a letter
from Helena Kobrin. Gromit is actually the name of an animated character.
"I have just been informed that one of your subscribers, whose name may be Gromit, has placed certain NOTs works on his web site at the following web pages:
www.inka.de/~gromit/clambake/ned1.html
www.inka.de/~gromit/clambake/ned2.html
www.inka.de/~gromit/clambake/ned3.html
www.inka.de/~gromit/clambake/ned4.html
www.inka.de/~gromit/clambake/ned5.html
www.inka.de/~gromit/clambake/ned6.html
www.inka.de/~gromit/clambake/ned7.html
www.inka.de/~gromit/clambake/not.index.html
"These works have been placed onto this web site without the authorization of my client. The works are registered with the US Copyright Office under registration numbers TXu 257326 and TXu 257527."
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Australian Meeting
David Gerard, Frank Copeland and Cyril Vosper had a meeting with
Scientologists Tim Jones and Brian Johnston to discuss the situation in
Australia.
"Topics included:
"religious beliefs vs. the CoS as organisation - our repeated emphasis that our objections aren't to the beliefs but to the actions of the Church
"what is the Church of the SubGenius (answer: an art-joke)
"who is Modemac (hmmm)
"the appropriate action for a large organisation to take in a copyright case
"Cyril Vosper and deprogramming/exit-counselling (good rant here, and Brian promised to send me a copy of the Church's documents on Cyril - gave him my PO box and email address as he left)
"that when we wave signs outside the Melbourne CoS, it isn't even terribly much to do with the Melbourne org, but simply that they're the local branch of the multinational organisation."
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CAN Unrepresented
The federal bankruptcy court in Chicago decided that the Cult Awareness
Network will not have legal representation in their bankruptcy case. CAN
is also concerned that Scientology will misuse the trademarks of CAN to
mislead Scientology victims.
"CAN's attorney, Benjamin J. Hyink of Chicago, protested to the judge that CAN still has an obligation to represent the rights of the organization as the non-profit corporation has not yet been dissolved and could receive funds in the future if the malicious prosecution case, which is against the Church of Scientology International, is successful.
"Judge Barliant, however, felt that CAN has an insufficient pecuniary interest to permit the corporation to have standing on behalf of its constituency.
"As to CAN's concern that the sale of the name to Mr. Hayes could result in fraudulent behavior in the future by the misuse of the CAN name or logo, Judge Barliant stated that appropriate legal remedies are available outside the bankruptcy court for recompense because of any such fraud.
"Without the right of CAN to have standing in the case in the future, important decisions could be made affecting CAN's members about which CAN will not be able to voice concern.
"For example, the trustee now has under his control hundreds of boxes of documents that once belonged to CAN, some of which contain confidential records. Mr. Martino can sell them without the right of CAN to object in the Bankruptcy Court. Scientologist Kendrick Moxon has already begun steps to purchase these records, which include communications from former Scientologists or the relatives of current Scientologists."
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French Verdict
The head of Scientology in France and 14 other members were convinced of
manslaughter and fraud in connection with the suicide of a Scientologist
in 1988. Patrick Vic was being pressured for money for the Purification
Rundown and jumped off an apartment building. From UPI:
"A court Friday sentenced the former head of the Church of Scientology in France to 18 months in prison for his role in the suicide of a member of the church. The court in the southern city of Lyon also handed Jean-Jacques Mazier a further 18-month suspended sentence and fined him 500,000 francs ($100,000) after convicting him on charges of second degree murder and fraud.
"The sentence was more severe than that sought by prosecutors, who had demanded a three-year suspended sentence and a 500,000 francs ($100,000) fine.
"Fifteen other church members received suspended prison terms of eight months to two years for being accessories to fraud. But the court dropped charges against another eight members, including the church's spokeswoman, Daniele Gounord, and Jean-Paul Chapellet, the former head of the church's security section."
"Scientology spokesman Marc Bromberg said the church would appeal against the sentences, which he described as scandalous, politically-motivated and a breach of freedom of religion. At the trial in Lyon, central France, prosecutors sought to portray the organisation as an enterprise masquerading as a religion, whose chief function was to extort cash from the gullible using abusive high-pressure techniques.
"Defence lawyers countered that the organisation was a legitimate religion and argued that their clients were the innocent victims of a campaign by the centre-right government to crack down on cults.
"The prosecution said Mazier went to the home of Vic, a 30-year-old industrial designer, where both men put pressure on Vic's wife to lend him money to attend a scientology course. Unable to raise the money, Vic threw himself off his high-rise apartment block. The defence blamed the suicide on long-term depression and alcohol abuse.
"Ricard told the court: 'The Church of Scientology is an international sect whose goals are commercial and dangerous methods disruptive to public order.'
Jens Tingleff translated an article in Liberation.
"Serene and precise, the president of the court, Patrick Lifschutz, imposed on 21 of the 23 accused the quasi-complete reading of a judgment in 72 pages. The methods of the sect were dissected. The responsibility of J J Mazier in the initiation of Patrice Vic, who committed suicide after after joining the church of scientology, was established. 'Direct causal links' between the actions of the responsibles in Lyon and the death of the member were, according to the judge, clearly established.
"The judgment quotes the expert Jean-Marie Abgrall: 'The techniques of 'auditing' places the subject in a state of infantilisation and dependence on connection with the sect.' The psychological pressure to which Patrice Vic was exposed and the harassment done by Mazier in the hours before Vic's death 'drove him to look for an end to his psychological suffering and brought him to suicide.'
"Prosecutors said Vic was under pressure from the church to take a $6,000 'purification treatment,' including daily sauna treatments and a low-sugar, high-vitamin diet. Vic was subjected to 'psychological torture,' the court said in its 200-page ruling.
"'The signs of psychological distress manifested by Patrick Vic should have led (Mazier) to treat his case with prudence and to take the necessary precautions,' the court said. Prosecutors called the church a 'money pump' and contended its leaders manipulated people to join the church and make contributions. In its ruling, the court said it was in no position to judge whether Scientology could be considered a true religion because 'freedom of belief is one of the fundamental elements of public freedom.'"
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UN Criticizes Germany
The UN Human Rights Committee criticized Germany this week, alleging
discrimination against Scientologists. From AFP:
"The 18-member committee discussed Monday and Tuesday the first report on the human rights situation in Germany to be submitted by Bonn under the terms of the 1976 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights since the country was reunified in 1990.
"A senior official of the German justice ministry, Matthias Weckerling, defended moves against the controversial Church of Scientology as prompted by the duty of the state to protect its citizens against the activities of certain religious sects. But members of the committee said there was a very fine line between protecting the public and respecting the rights of religious expression and belief.
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Gold Base
Jeff Jacobsen posted news of accidents at Scientology's Gold Base near
Hemet, CA.
"The Riverside Press-Enterprise of 9/30/96 says 'Blaze destroys 2 buildings at church', meaning Golden Era Studios. 'Some oily rags in the shop spontaneously combusted' in a maintenance house and also burned a pool house at 3:45am. Damage estimate $2500. The only pool I know of there is right below the 'ship.'
"I got another undated photograph from some newspaper about a Scientology bus whose brakes failed. It ran into a pickup hauling a trailer. Only the bus driver was hurt, Thomas Martin Brandis, 35."
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Grady Ward
Grady Ward reported decisions from Judges Whyte and Infante in the
Scamizdat trial.
"Orders concerning the three latest motions in front of Judge Infante: The Motion for Costs -- Denied Protective Order -- partial, oral deposition limited to 4 hours Compel Response -- partial, plaintiff ordered to answer Interrogatory No. 1: List each and all whereabouts and safekeeping arrangements of each and all components of the 'Advanced Technology' materials since earliest of the inception, dissemination or reduction to tangible form of such material to the present.'"
"In an Order based apparently on an ex parte application, Judge Ronald M. Whyte has permitted the criminal cult to examine the 'forged' NOTs contained in my Exhibit A of my Swedish NOTs publicly available declaration. The order was written:
"'It is hereby ordered that plaintiff's counsel may review the original document of docket document #127. During counsel's review of the document a staff member of the clerk's office shall monitor the review.'
"What's that again? The Judge realizes that there is sufficient cause to believe that the counsel for the plaintiff IS NOT TRUSTWORTHY TO VIEW A LEGAL DOCUMENT WITHOUT SUPERVISION."
Grady also filed notices with Scientology lawyers that he intends to depose David Miscavige, the head of Scientology, and Warren McShane, his under-boss at the RTC.
"PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that pursuant to Rule 30(b)(1) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, defendant Grady Ward, pro se, hereby notices the deposition of David Miscavige, to be taken at the office of Grady Ward, 3449 Martha Ct., Arcata, CA 95521, commencing at 9:00 a.m. on December 30, 1996, and continuing from day to day thereafter, as approved by the Court, excluding Saturday, Sunday and holidays, until completed before a notary public authorized to administer the oath. Mr. Miscavige is being deposed as a party because during all events and occurrences of the claims and counterclaims he was the Chairman of the Board of the plaintiff, the Religious Technology Center and has knowledge, inter alia, of copyright transfers of the alleged 'Advanced Technology' materials as documented in the plaintiff's complaint. The deposition may be recorded stenographically and/or recorded by sound and visually.
"DOCUMENTS AND THINGS TO BE PRODUCED
"1. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to copyright or other property right transfers of Advanced Technology that you witnessed or played a material role.
2. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to Eugene Martin Ingram.
3. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to Grady Ward.
5. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to any criminal or civil proceedings in any country or venue against any officers or members of the board of any organizations listed in request four.
7. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to Jeffrey George Quiros' acts with respect to Grady and/or alt.religion.scientology
10. All telephone bills and other documents concerning telephone calls made by you to any investigator.
11. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to payment to any investigators or attorneys for the benefit of investigators."
"PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that pursuant to Rule 30(b)(1) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, defendant Grady Ward, pro se, hereby notices the deposition of Warren McShane, to be taken at the office of Grady Ward, 3449 Martha Ct., Arcata, CA 95521, commencing at 9:00 a.m. on Monday, January 6, 1997, and continuing from day to day thereafter, as approved by the Court, excluding Saturday, Sunday and holidays, until completed before a notary public authorized to administer the oath. Mr. Shane is being deposed as a party because during all events and occurrences of the claims and counterclaims he was the President of the plaintiff, the Religious Technology Center and has knowledge, inter alia, of copyright transfers, alleged trade secrets of the 'Advanced Technology' materials, and alleged postings of the defendant on the Internet as documented in the plaintiff's complaint. The deposition may be recorded stenographically and/or recorded by sound and visually.
"DOCUMENTS AND THINGS TO BE PRODUCED
"2. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to which of L. Ron Hubbard's documents have been published and which of his documents have not.
3. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to communication with David Miscavige or Eugene Martin Ingram concerning Grady Ward, alt.religion.scientology, or issues of copyright or trade secrecy of the Advanced Technology.
4. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to the distribution of L. Ron Hubbard's literary assets in the Advanced Technology following his death in 1986.
5. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to the 'immense value' of the 'Advanced Technology contained in the Works'.
7. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to the confidentiality agreements alleged executed by 'parishioners.'
10. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to the 'illicit means' that the plaintiff alleges that some entity(s) took unauthorized possession or use of the Advanced Technology
21. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to demonstrating the assertion that there have been 'no postings by Scamizdat since this suit was filed.'
22. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to the 'RTC's daily and extensive monitoring of the Internet'
24. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to 'the posting was totally off the Internet within one day.'
28. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to how 'web searches are conducted by several search engines daily' with particularity to time, place, manner, who performs, what Usenet feed it use, and all other technical detail necessary to determine the effectiveness of such searches.
35. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to the authenticity of alleged postings by Ward described paragraphs 15. through 27.
39. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to the allegation that Ward's Swedish NOTs Exhibit A was 'forged' in counsel Hogan's letter to Ward of October 25, 1996.
40. All documents that refer, reflect, or relate to the 'spiritual harm' that occurs when the Works are broadcast indiscriminately."
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Kane Denies Cult
A decision by Judge Kane in the FACTNet trial was posted this week.
Scientology had attempted to block veteran attorney Graham Berry from
representing FACTNet. The judge denied their claim.
"Plaintiffs, in their Opposition to Pro Hac Vice Application of Graham Berry and Musick, Peeler, & Garrett, argue the Musick, Peeler firm and Berry should be disqualified because (1) Berry was a central figure in the events that lead to this suit, and is therefore a material witness as to contested issues where his credibility will be a significant factor; (2) Berry and the Musick, Peeler firm both previously represented a former counsel of RTC in actions against RTC, during the course of which representation both Berry and the Musick, Peeler firm necessarily were exposed to confidences RTC exposed to its former counsel on matters substantially related to the instant lawsuit; and (3) there is a conflict of interest created by the fact that another Musick, Peeler partner was a member of a law firm where dozens of attorneys and paralegals represented plaintiffs and other Church of Scientology entities in a wide variety of matters, and participated in briefings on Plaintiffs' legal affairs, including intellectual property matters.
"In considering a motion for disqualification of counsel, a balancing is required between the interests of the client and those of the opposing party. Whether the opposing party is likely to suffer prejudice depends on the nature of the case, the importance and probable tenor of the lawyer's testimony, and the probability that the lawyer's testimony will conflict with that of other witnesses. Even if there is a risk of such prejudice, in determining whether the lawyer should be disqualified due regard must be given to the effect of disqualification on the lawyer's client. It is relevant that one or both parties could reasonably foresee that the lawyer would probably be a witness.
"For the reasons stated below, I find Plaintiffs have not met their burden of proof to establish Berry is a 'necessary witness.' I also find disqualification of Berry would work substantial hardship on F.A.C.T.Net.
"I grant the Motion to Admit Graham E. Berry to Practice Pro Hac vice, Motion for Protective Order Prohibiting Deposition and Document Discovery of Graham E. Berry, Esq. and Motion to Admit Daniel A. Leipold to Practice Pro Hmc Vice."
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Yager RPF'd
Martin Ottmann posted speculation that Marc Yager has been assigned to
Scientology's prison camp outfit, the RPF.
"Yager had been 'Inspector General for Admin' of the 'Religious Technology Center', a high rank within the corporation which owns the trademarks and copyrights of Scientology. He had held that post from 1987 until 1993, when he was removed and placed on a lower post within the 'Church of Scientology International'-corporation, as 'Commanding Officer of the Commodore's Messengers Organization International'. Yager was familiar with that one, as he had been 'CO CMO Int.' from 1982 until 1987.
"In June 1995, during an 'Anniversary Cruise' of the Scientology-ship 'Freewinds' Yager was seen last time in public, when he conducted a seminar for Scientologists in his function as CO CMO Int.
"On the 13th and 14th April 1996 an event in Los Angeles took place to celebrate the re-opening of the renovated 'American Saint Hill Organization'. One of the persons who represented the 'Church'-management during that celebration was Marc Ingber. He was announced as 'CO CMO Int.'. In that period, during February and March 1996, Yager's name was removed from the 'Senior Honor Roll'-list of the 'International Association of Scientologists' (IAS).
"When Achim Bendig, German membership I/C of the IAS was RPF'ed in 1992, his name was deleted from that list too."
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Zenon Panoussis
Johan Sjokvist translated portions of the Swedish edition of Scientology's
Freedom Magazine, designed for distribution outside the cult as a PR tool.
The magazine makes classic Dead Agent attacks against Zenon Panoussis.
"Following the church´s success is a Swedish case, which has received a lot of attention, where an individual against the law has tried to take advantage of the church name and spread its copyright-protected material on the Internet, and by blackmailing and threatening has tried to receive money.
"Since the individual is insusceptible to any suggestions to make him stop his violations, even references to earlier court orders in nearly identical US cases in favor of the church, he has left the church with no other choice than to take legal actions in order to stop these illegal activities.
"Following the bizarre plans of an individual, by certain media betitled *copyright terrorist*, the Swedish parliament has been made into an accomplice in copying and distributing stolen property. The matter is unpublished, copyright protected scripts that originally were stolen from the church of Scientology in the 1980s. Zenon Panoussis, the Egypt born Swedish citizen who brought the Swedish parliament with him in his dubious activities, had already been forbidden by Swedish courts to violate the ownership of these sacred documents and were also refused to own a single copy. Hoping to circumvent the court order, forbidding him to possess, copy and distribute this material, Panoussis manipulated the constitutional principle of public parliament documents. By placing copies of the material in the parliament archives, Panoussis turned them into *public* documents and thereby put the parliament in the position of having to make the same troublesome violations of illegal possession, copying and distribution that he himself had done.
"After being ordered by courts to stop the violations of these immaterial rights concerning these documents, and being refused to possess even a single copy of the material, the data-anarchist Zenon Panoussis, for mysterious reasons, has distorted the constitutional public rights (offentlighetsprincipen). By placing unpublished and copyright protected work in the parliament, Panoussis has tried to circumvent Swedish court orders forbidding his possession, copying and distribution of the material, and so make the parliament do the same violations. He has severely manipulated and is continuing to manipulate on of the most important principles of the Swedish constitution, guaranteeing access to *public* documents. Now what is all this about? And what are the consequences to the regular Swedish citizen, not a thief, anarchist or *copyright terrorist*? Even though these are not simple questions, it IS important that this story is understood by all those who salute our constitution and appreciate the built-in freedoms of our system. These are the foundations that are being threatened by people like Zenon Panoussis. He is looking for loopholes in the law to avoid the consequences of his own lawlessness. People like him necessitates the creation of new laws to clear out possible doubtfulness. It is the law obeying people´s rights that are being restricted - the criminal just look for a way to avoid the new law."
Zenon posted several updates on the case, including descriptions of a multi-part television show on the controversy. Also, Scientology is starting a campaign to change the Swedish constitution to stop their distribution of NOTS upon request.
[from a correspondent] "I visited the Clerk's room at the Primary Court of Stockholm yesterday. Among many other papers there is a ledger of paid fees for copies of public common papers. I looked at the ledger, which is public as much as the NOTs are public papers in the Court.
"I found the following three receipts: Receipt no 124: 412 Swedish crowns, name: Ronald M. Whyte. Receipt no 125: 412 Swedish crowns, name: Edward A. Infante. Receipt no 126: 412 Swedish crowns, name: Leonie M. Brinkema."
"The scienos have appealed the bailiff's decision not to raid the parliament. They keep claiming that the parliament's copy of the NOTs is in my 'indirect possession'. Their claim is supported by an opinion from an ex-supreme court judge. I checked with the civil register: he turned 80 last week.
"McShame is in Stockholm. Yesterday he held a press conference at the Grand Hotel, Stockholm's poshest, together with his old lackey Magnusson and a new one from another law firm, by the name of Monique Wadsted. I was not invited to the conference, so my report has to rely on the data conveyed by those who were.
"The scienos and their lawyers want to change the constitution. Sure, it's the constitution that is wrong, not their heads. But I must admit that they were masterly in misleading the media. They started off with copyright, then subtly changed the subject to trade secrets, and went on by comparing the parliament's copying of the NOTs to the copying of Coca-Cola's recipe, or Ericsson's invention of a new mobile phone system. No journalist seems to have noticed that copyright and trade secret are just two different things. No journalist seems to have asked why they only sued me for copyright infringement and not for trade secret infringement.
"Marianne Levin, professor of law on immaterial property at the university of Stockholm, made a statement to the press saying that the authorities that are copying the NOTs 'may be acting wrongly' and that 'it cannot be the intention of the constitution to help individuals to damage others' property'."
"Transcript from the Swedish TV4 'Nyheterna' - the news, November 21st, 22.00 edition.
"Reporter: This is Warren McShane one of the highest ranking officials of the Scientology movement in the US. That he is here says a great lot. It is a crucial battle fought in Sweden right now. McShane: We will pursue every legal avenue we have, if we have to go to the EU court of human rights we will do that.
"[Bryan Wilson 'Dr. of Sociology, England'] Wilson: I am here as a British scholar, really, who is rather concerned about what has happened to the secret materials of the church of Scientology, which you probably know about. It appears that there is a court order that these are secret and should be sealed, but apparently they have been filed with the parliamentary papers and they are accessible by a wider public. That seems to be a conflict of law, or a confusion - at least, and there seems to be no will to do anything about it, which rather concerns scholars of religion in different countries, my own included.
"[Tom Thyblad, head of parliament chancellery] Thyblad: They have told that they experience this as a problem - they have a problem understanding our legislation. They think that copyright is above the 'freedom of printing'[tryckfrihetsförordningen]. Reporter: What have you told them? Thyblad: We have told them that the law is what it is, and the only way to change that is to change the legislation, to stop it.
"[Scientologist Hakan Wahlgren] Reporter: The consequence is this: every day members of the movement are guarding their bible, no one else gets access to reading it. Reporter: Can you explain to our viewers, that might wonder, what is so sensitive about those papers? Why can't one see it? Wahlgren: Well...it might be hard to explain...uhm...er...it is hard to explain, but it is...what can I say...yes, it is sensitive...it is secret...it is stuff that is for, as it reads here [points into 'Freedom' mag], those who have reached this spiritual level, that they can read this material. Reporter: Have you done that? Wahlgren: No. Reporter: So you are not even allowed to see these papers? Wahlgren: No, so I don't want to read this, because if I did it wouldn't be very good. Reporter: What happens if you read the papers without having reached the level? Wahlgren: Well, if you encounter things that you can't confront, you can get a little dizzy...in your head....sort off... Reporter: Can you get sick? Wahlgren: Yes, you can. Reporter: Can you die? Wahlgren: Yes you can.
"McShane: It is a matter of religious belief. Our religion is designed that it is studied at a gradient, and that people that are not ready to see these materials will not understand them. It could be harmful to them spiritually. Reporter: And physically as well? McShane: Naawh...not physically, no, but spiritually. We feel as a matter of religious belief, we have the right to say when our parishioners, or anybody else, would be allowed to see these materials. Reporter: But most religions at least let people study their holy scripts. McShane: And we let people study _our_ religious scriptures - when they are ready for it."
"Then they came up to one and asked him if they could film him or ask questions or something. His reply, 'No or I'll sue you' The reporter says the equivalent of 'What?' Again, 'No or I'll sue you'.
"Then Tarja Vuolto, all wide eyed and trying to look so innocent replying to a reporter who asks is it true that someone would normally have to pay hundreds of thousands of kronor to read these texts. She replies with yes, but that you can't put a price on the freedom of the soul.
"They showed a little illustration of lots of little Thetans in a block of ice being sent to Earth and put in a volcano. Then this big evil looking Genie type staring down behind the earth. As this was showing the comments explained the whole Xenu story."
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